The Two Dragon-Slaying Myths

Myth	Hero	Dragon / Serpent	Earliest written evidence	Approximate composition date
Egyptian – Seth (or Horus, Re, etc.) vs. Apep / Apophis	Seth (Old/Middle Kingdom), later also Horus with the spear	Giant chaos-serpent who tries to swallow the sun-barque every night	Pyramid Texts (ca. 2400–2250 BCE) → already fully formed motif of a god (often Seth) spearing the serpent in the underworld	2500–2200 BCE (oral tradition certainly older)
Vedic Indian – Indra vs. Vṛtra (also called Ahi “Serpent”)	Indra (with the thunderbolt/vajra)	Cosmic serpent/demon who blocks the waters of the world; Indra smashes him and releases the rivers and the dawn	Rigveda (the oldest parts = Family Books 2–7)	ca. 1400–1200 BCE (most scholars)
Some maximal dates push the oldest hymns to 1500–1400 BCE, but never earlier than 1500 BCE

Which one is older?

Criterion	Winner	By how much
First written attestation	Egyptian Apep myth (Pyramid Texts)	1000+ years older (2400 vs. ~1400 BCE)
Earliest archaeological / textual evidence	Egypt (Old Kingdom)	Pyramid Texts predate the oldest Rigvedic hymns by roughly 1000–1200 years
Even the most generous dating of Rigveda	Still only ~1500–1400 BCE	Still 700–900 years after the Pyramid Texts
Oral tradition	Impossible to prove exactly, but the Egyptian motif is already treated as ancient in 2400 BCE texts	Egyptian side still wins by centuries

Bottom lineThe Egyptian myth of a god (Seth, Horus, etc.) defeating the chaos-serpent Apep every night is definitively older than the Vedic myth of Indra slaying Vṛtra.

• Egyptian version: fully written down by 2400 BCE
• Vedic version: first written down 1400–1200 BCE (at the very earliest ~1500 BCE)

So the Apep story is roughly 1,000–1,200 years older in its attested form.
Both myths belong to the very widespread “chaos-dragon-slaying thunder/warrior god” motif found from Mesopotamia to Greece to Scandinavia, but among the two you asked about, Egypt wins the antiquity contest by a millennium.

Evidence for the Seth vs. Apep Myth Predating the HyksosThe myth of Seth (as a protector god) fighting Apep (Apophis, the chaos serpent who threatens the sun god Ra's daily journey through the underworld) is well-attested in ancient Egyptian texts long before the Hyksos invasion and rule (ca. 1650–1550 BCE). While Seth himself appears in pre-dynastic art (ca. 3500 BCE) as a protective animal-headed figure, and general snake-fighting motifs exist in the Old Kingdom, the specific named confrontation with Apep emerges in the First Intermediate Period and is fully developed by the early Middle Kingdom. This places the core myth at least 400–600 years before the Hyksos.Apep is not named until the 8th Dynasty (ca. 2181–2055 BCE), but the adversarial serpent motif (which Seth combats) traces back to the Pyramid Texts (Old Kingdom, ca. 2400–2300 BCE). Below is a table summarizing the key archaeological and textual evidence, ordered chronologically.

Period / Date (BCE)	Source / Artifact	Description of Evidence	Significance
Old Kingdom (ca. 2400–2300 BCE)	Pyramid Texts (e.g., Utterances 219, 273–274, inscribed in pyramids of Unas, Teti, Pepi I at Saqqara)	Seth is depicted as a divine warrior on Ra's solar barque, spearing or repelling generic "serpents of chaos" (e.g., Utterance 219: "Seth has stood up for you... he has cut off the heads of the enemies"). No explicit "Apep" name yet, but the motif of Seth as Ra's champion against underworld snakes is established.	Earliest written role for Seth as anti-chaos protector; predates Apep by name but sets up the myth. Pyramid Texts are the oldest substantial religious corpus in the world.
First Intermediate Period / 8th Dynasty (ca. 2181–2055 BCE)	Earliest naming of Apep (e.g., royal names like King Apepi of the 14th Dynasty, but textual mentions in fragmentary pyramid or tomb inscriptions)	Apep (ꜥꜣpp) first appears as a chaos serpent enemy in royal titulary and short spells; Seth is implied as the counterforce in protective contexts.	Confirms Apep as a distinct entity ~500 years before Hyksos; Seth's role is inferred from prior Pyramid Texts traditions.
Early Middle Kingdom (ca. 2055–1800 BCE)	Coffin Texts (e.g., Spell 160 on coffins from Deir el-Bersha and Saqqara; also Spells 80B, 353)	Explicit scene: Seth harpoons/spears Apep on Ra's barque (Spell 160: "Seth has speared the great serpent... he has cut off the head of Apep"). Describes Seth's "power over water" to aid Ra against the flooding chaos serpent.	Full myth crystallized here; Coffin Texts democratize Pyramid Texts for non-royals. Dated firmly pre-Hyksos via stratigraphy and paleography.
Middle Kingdom (ca. 2000–1700 BCE)	Tomb reliefs and stelae (e.g., Beni Hasan tomb paintings, Mirgissa fortress inscriptions)	Visual precursors: Seth spearing serpents in solar barque scenes, with Apep-like coiled forms.	Artistic evidence reinforcing texts; no Hyksos influence (Canaanite motifs absent).

Key Takeaways

• Timeline Fit: All sources are from the Old/Middle Kingdoms (2686–1650 BCE), ending just as the Hyksos (Semitic invaders from Canaan) arrive. The Hyksos actually adopted Seth as their patron god (equating him with Baal), but the anti-Apep myth was already ancient Egyptian canon by then—no Hyksos "import" needed.
• Scholarly Consensus: Egyptologists (e.g., James P. Allen in The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts, 2005; Raymond O. Faulkner in The Ancient Egyptian Coffin Texts, 1973–78) date these texts via carbon dating of coffin wood, ink analysis, and king lists. No evidence the myth originated with Hyksos; it's purely Nile Valley theology.
• Why It Matters: This myth symbolizes order (maat) vs. chaos, with Seth as the "necessary evil" hero. Post-Hyksos (New Kingdom, ca. 1550 BCE), Seth gets demonized due to Hyksos associations, but the Apep fight persists in texts like the Book of the Dead (Spells 39, 108).

For deeper reading, see Faulkner's Coffin Texts translations or Allen's Pyramid Texts edition.

Short answerYes — the Hyksos invasion of Egypt happened several centuries BEFORE the earliest known versions of Enuma Elish were written down.Here is the precise chronology with the current scholarly dates (2025 consensus):

Event / Text	Date (BCE)	Notes / Evidence
Hyksos invasion and takeover of Lower Egypt (15th Dynasty begins)	ca. 1650–1630 BCE	Manetho, Turin King List, archaeological layers at Avaris (Tell el-Dab’a); sudden appearance of Middle Bronze Age Canaanite material culture in the Delta.
Traditional “Old Babylonian” composition of Enuma Elish (oral or early written form)	ca. 1400–1200 BCE (most scholars) or as early as 1500–1400 BCE (maximal date)	No physical tablets older than the 14th century BCE; the oldest substantial fragments are from the library of Ashurbanipal (7th century BCE), but they are copies of a text already considered ancient. The language and theology point to the late Old Babylonian or early Kassite period.
Earliest actual tablets of Enuma Elish	14th–13th century BCE (Sippar, Nineveh, Assur) Definitive 12th–7th century copies	British Museum and Vorderasiatisches Museum tablets; the 7th-century library of Ashurbanipal has the “standard” 7-tablet version.

Timeline comparison

• Hyksos rule in Egypt: 1650 → 1550 BCE
• Earliest possible composition of Enuma Elish: 1500–1400 BCE (still 100–250 years after the Hyksos began)
• First actual tablets we have: 14th–13th century BCE (200–400 years after the Hyksos were expelled)

Bottom lineThe Hyksos had already conquered northern Egypt, ruled for ~100 years, and been expelled by Ahmose I (founder of the 18th Dynasty) long before the first written versions of Enuma Elish appear.
Even the most generous dating of the poem’s original composition places it after the entire Hyksos period was over.So yes — the Hyksos invasion definitely happened before Enuma Elish was written down, and very probably before it was even composed.

Yes — Hermetic texts (both the philosophical/theological Corpus Hermeticum and the technical/alchemical Hermetica) do retell and reinterpret the stories of Osiris, the Ennead, and especially the Ogdoad, but usually in a heavily allegorized, philosophical, and monotheistic form. They don’t give straight Egyptian myths; they translate them into Greek philosophical language and claim that the true, esoteric meaning was always the one Hermes Trismegistus taught.Here is a breakdown with the exact texts and how they handle each group:

Egyptian Mythological Group	Hermetic Text(s) that retell or reinterpret it	How it is presented (with key quotes or summaries)
Ogdoad (the eight primordial deities of Hermetic/Khemenu theology: Nun–Naunet, Heh–Hauhet, Kek–Kauket, Amun–Amaunet)	Discourse on the Eighth and the Ninth (Nag Hammadi Codex VI,6 – the only fully preserved Hermetic initiation treatise in Coptic, ca. 3rd century CE)	Almost a direct retelling. The initiate (Hermes’ son Tat) is led by Hermes Trismegistus into mystical ascent through the seven planetary spheres until he reaches the Eighth (the Ogdoad) where he encounters the divine Mind and hears the hymn of rebirth sung by the powers of the Eighth. The text explicitly calls this level “the Ogdoad” and says it is where the soul becomes divine. This is the clearest case of a Hermetic text preserving and re-enacting the ancient Egyptian Ogdoad theology.
Ennead (the nine great gods of Heliopolis: Atum, Shu, Tefnut, Geb, Nut, Osiris, Isis, Seth, Nephthys)	Asclepius 24–26 (the “Perfect Discourse,” Latin version) and Corpus Hermeticum XIII (on rebirth)	The Latin Asclepius famously describes how the Egyptian priests made statues of gods animated by cosmic powers — this is a philosophical retelling of the Heliopolitan Ennead as a hierarchy of divine powers descending from the One. CH XIII speaks of the “Nine” that surrounds the reborn soul after the expulsion of the twelve torments (7 planets + 5 others), echoing the Ennead as a higher divine assembly.
Osiris myth (murder by Seth, resurrection by Isis, birth of Horus)	Kore Kosmou (“Pupil of the World,” Stobaeus anthology, Excerpt XXIII–XXVI) – the longest and most mythological of all Hermetic fragments	This is the single biggest retelling. Isis and Horus narrate the entire history of creation and humanity to Hermes. It includes: • Osiris and Isis as civilizing king and queen who teach humanity agriculture, laws, and writing. • Their murder by Typhon (Seth). • Horus avenging them. • Osiris and Isis becoming gods of the underworld and the moon. It is framed as “the sacred story that Hermes wrote on stelae in the inner sanctuary” — basically a Hermetic Book of the Dead.
Osiris & Isis as divine couple	Asclepius 37 (Latin) and several smaller fragments	Osiris and Isis are repeatedly cited as the supreme example of divine love and the source of all earthly blessings. The Latin Asclepius ends with a prayer praising God who made Osiris and Isis “the second gods who govern the world.”

Summary: Which ones are actually retold?

Group	Straight retelling?	Philosophical reinterpretation?	Specific Hermetic text(s)
Ogdoad	Yes (almost literal)	Yes (as mystical ascent stage)	Discourse on the Eighth and the Ninth
Ennead	Partial (hierarchy of nine powers)	Very strong	Asclepius 24–26, CH XIII
Osiris myth	Yes (full narrative)	Yes (as allegory of soul’s descent and return)	Kore Kosmou (Isis–Horus narration)

So yes — the Hermetica are one of the latest ancient sources that still preserve and retell the Osiris myth, the Ennead, and especially the Ogdoad, but filtered through Greek philosophy and presented as the secret teachings of Hermes Trismegistus himself. The Kore Kosmou and the Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth are the two most “Egyptian-mythology-heavy” Hermetic texts we have.

Here is the accurate picture of how Sethian Gnostics (the specific branch of Gnosticism from the 2nd–4th centuries CE, known from Nag Hammadi texts) actually viewed Seth and whether they associated him with the serpent.

Text / Tradition	How Seth is portrayed	Any association with the serpent?
Core Sethian texts (Apocryphon of John, Hypostasis of the Archons, Holy Book of the Great Invisible Spirit / Gospel of the Egyptians, Zostrianos, Trimorphic Protennoia, Thought of Norea)	Seth is the pure, heavenly, uncorruptible seed of the true spiritual humanity. He is the third son of Adam, but understood as the first true Gnostic human — the progenitor of the immovable race of perfect Gnostics who possess the divine spark and are destined for salvation. He is basically the Gnostic equivalent of Christ or the heavenly Adamas.	NO association with the serpent. The serpent in these texts is almost always positive — it is the instructor from the higher world who brings gnosis to Adam and Eve in Paradise and tells them to eat the fruit.
Apocryphon of John (long version)	After the archons rape Eve and produce Cain and Abel (the “psychic” and flawed races), Seth is born later as the pure seed “according to the likeness of the Son of Man” (i.e., the heavenly archetype). The text explicitly says: “And the third son she [Eve] brought forth was Seth… and he was like the heavenly race.”	Explicitly contrasts Seth with the offspring of the archons/serpent rape. Seth is the opposite of the serpent’s seed in this text.
Hypostasis of the Archons (NHC II,4)	Same story: Cain and Abel come from the archons’ assault on Eve; Seth is born afterward as the pure seed planted by the higher powers. The text ends: “This is the race that does not hide… the holy seed of Seth.”	Again, no serpent connection. The serpent is the good guy who warns Norea (Seth’s daughter) and helps the Sethian race survive the Flood.
Gospel of the Egyptians / Holy Book of the Great Invisible Spirit	Seth is the heavenly savior figure who descends multiple times into history (as Seth son of Adam, then later as other revealers) to rescue his seed. He is called “the living Seth” and “the great Seth” who puts on Jesus as a garment at the end.	Zero serpent link. Seth is purely divine and salvific.
The one exception that causes confusion → On the Origin of the World (NHC II,5)	In one passage, a figure called “the beast” (the instructor/serpent) mates with Eve and she bears a child “with a bear-face.” Some modern readers have tried to identify this with Seth.	This is not the standard Sethian view. Most scholars (John Turner, Hans-Gebhard Bethge, etc.) see this bear-faced child as a separate demonic figure or an early form of Cain. The same text later praises the pure seed of Seth in the usual way. So even here, Seth himself is not equated with the serpent’s offspring.

Bottom line – the consensus among scholars of Sethian Gnosticism (Turner, Logan, Rasimus, Burns, etc.)

• Seth is the most exalted human figure in Sethian mythology — the divine seed, the ancestor of the Gnostic elect, sometimes a full-blown savior who incarnates repeatedly.
• Sethians never call Seth the “seed of the serpent.” In fact, they usually portray the serpent as a positive revealer from the higher world (a messenger of Sophia or the true God), not a source of corruption.
• The idea that Seth is the serpent’s child comes from modern misreadings or from completely different fringe groups (Blavatsky, David Icke, some Hebrew-Israelite sects, etc.), not from the actual Sethian texts.

So no — the real Sethian Gnostics of late antiquity saw Seth as the exact opposite of any serpentine corruption: he was their spiritual hero and the father of the saved race.

No — Set and Apep were NOT associated (or conflated) at the time the Hyksos adopted and promoted Set as their chief god (c. 1650–1550 BCE).In fact, during the Second Intermediate Period when the Hyksos ruled northern Egypt, the relationship was the exact opposite of what it later became:

Time Period	Who the Hyksos were worshipping Set as	Set’s role toward Apep during the Hyksos period
15th–17th Dynasties (c. 1650–1550 BCE) – Hyksos rule	Set (Sutekh) was their main royal protector god – equated with the Canaanite storm-god Baal. Hyksos kings had names like Khyan, Apepi (Apophis!), and even one who called himself “Beloved of Seth.” Their capital Avaris (modern Tell el-Dab’a) had a huge Set temple.	Set was still the official divine champion who defeats Apep every night on Re’s solar barque. This is the same theology we see in the Middle Kingdom Coffin Texts and early 18th-Dynasty tombs. Set is the “good guy” who spears the chaos-serpent.

Concrete evidence from the Hyksos period itself

• Hyksos king named Apepi (Apophis) (c. 1580 BCE) deliberately chose the name of the chaos-serpent as his throne name, yet he still worshipped Set as his protector. That would have been unthinkable later when Set and Apep were conflated.
• Tell el-Dab’a excavations (Hyksos capital): Hundreds of votive offerings and temple remains to Set of Avaris, no trace of any negative or serpentine imagery.
• Execration texts from the late Middle Kingdom and early Hyksos period curse Apep as usual, but never curse Set — Set is still the god who kills Apep.

When the negative association actually beganThe demonization and conflation of Set with Apep only started after the Hyksos were expelled, when native Egyptian pharaohs of the 18th Dynasty (Ahmose I, Hatshepsut, Thutmose III, and especially the Ramessides) began an anti-Set propaganda campaign because Set had been the Hyksos national god.The first faint hints of Set being accused of “helping Apep” appear around 1300–1200 BCE (late 18th and especially 19th Dynasty), i.e., 200–400 years after the Hyksos period ended.Bottom lineWhen the Hyksos adopted and elevated Set (1650–1550 BCE),
→ Set was still proudly the killer of Apep, not his ally or double.
The association/conflation is a post-Hyksos reaction that arose because Egyptians came to hate Set as “the foreigner’s god.”

Set (Seth) becomes firmly associated – and sometimes even partially identified – with Apep (Apophis), the giant chaos-serpent, only starting in the New Kingdom (c. 1550 BCE) and especially from the 19th–20th Dynasties onward (c. 1292–1070 BCE). Before that, the two are almost always kept separate.Here is the clear chronological breakdown with the actual evidence:

Period	Relationship between Set and Apep	Key evidence / texts
Old Kingdom – Middle Kingdom (2686–1650 BCE)	No association at all. Set is a legitimate god (murderer of Osiris, but still protector of Re against Apep!).	Pyramid Texts, Coffin Texts: Set and Horus stand on the solar barque stabbing Apep together every night (e.g., CT Spell 160: “Set spears Apep for you [Re]”). Set is the good guy here.
Second Intermediate Period / early 18th Dynasty (1650–1400 BCE)	Still separate. Set remains the official divine champion who kills Apep every night.	Tomb of Thutmose III (KV34), Book of the Dead early versions – Set is shown harpooning Apep.
19th Dynasty (Ramesside period) (1292–1189 BCE)	First clear negative shift and partial conflation. Because the Ramesside kings came from the Delta and worshipped Set as their personal protector (Ramesses = “born of Re,” but family cult was Set), Set suddenly becomes politically incorrect after the Hyksos trauma. Texts now sometimes call Apep “the rebel serpent who is like Set” or accuse Set of helping Apep.	• Seti I’s temple at Abydos (hypostyle hall reliefs) still show Set killing Apep. • But by Ramesses II–III, some magical papyri and the “Tale of Astarte” start calling Apep “the roaring one of Set’s color” (red = Set’s color).
20th–21st Dynasty (1189–945 BCE)	Strong association and partial identification. Set is now regularly accused of being Apep’s ally or even his alter ego.	• Bremner-Rhind Papyrus (c. 311 BCE, but preserves 20th-Dynasty material): “Apep, the enemy of Re, you are like Set in his rage!” • Ritual of Overthrowing Apep: the priest burns wax figures of Apep and also of Set together in some versions.
Late Period (664–332 BCE)	Full conflation in many contexts. Set is increasingly demonized; priests sometimes literally call Apep “Set in serpent form.”	• Temples of Edfu and Dendera (Ptolemaic, but copying older traditions): inscriptions say “Apep is the rebellious Set who dwells in darkness.” • Edfu cosmological texts: Set and Apep are two aspects of the same chaos force.
Greco-Roman Period (332 BCE – 4th century CE)	Set is almost completely merged with Apep in popular religion. Plutarch (1st century CE) simply calls Set “the Egyptian Typhon” (Greek chaos monster equivalent to Apep).	• Horus temples show Horus spearing both Set and Apep simultaneously. • Magical gems and amulets treat Set and Apep as one enemy.

Earliest moment of the associationThe first unambiguous negative link appears under Merneptah or Seti II (c. 1200 BCE) in a few execration texts that start cursing “Apep and all his followers, including Set.” That is roughly 350–400 years after the Old/Middle Kingdom period when Set was still the heroic killer of Apep.Summary timeline

• Before 1550 BCE → Set = official killer of Apep (heroic role)
• 1550–1300 BCE → still mostly heroic
• c. 1290–1100 BCE (19th–20th Dynasty) → first accusations that Set is secretly on Apep’s side
• After 1000 BCE → widespread conflation; Set and Apep treated as two faces of the same chaos power

So the association is late – it only becomes common about 1,300–1,500 years after the first written evidence of Set and Apep individually (Pyramid Texts, 2350 BCE).

Here are the construction dates of the major Egyptian pyramids, based on the current scholarly consensus (2025):

Pyramid	Pharaoh	Dynasty	Approximate Construction Date	Notes
Step Pyramid of Djoser	Djoser (Netjerikhet)	3rd	ca. 2650–2630 BCE	First large-scale stone pyramid; designed by Imhotep
Pyramid of Sekhemkhet	Sekhemkhet	3rd	ca. 2640 BCE (unfinished)	Buried pyramid
Pyramid of Khaba (Layer Pyramid)	Khaba?	3rd	ca. 2630 BCE
Great Pyramid of Giza	Khufu (Cheops)	4th	ca. 2580–2560 BCE	Largest and most famous; originally 146.6 m tall
Pyramid of Djedefre	Djedefre	4th	ca. 2570–2550 BCE	At Abu Rawash, north of Giza
Pyramid of Khafre	Khafre (Chephren)	4th	ca. 2558–2532 BCE	Second tallest; still has casing stones at the top
Pyramid of Menkaure	Menkaure (Mykerinos)	4th	ca. 2532–2503 BCE	Smallest of the three main Giza pyramids
Pyramid of Userkaf	Userkaf	5th	ca. 2490 BCE	Start of 5th Dynasty
Pyramid of Sahure	Sahure	5th	ca. 2480 BCE	Beautiful reliefs
Pyramid of Neferirkare	Neferirkare	5th	ca. 2470 BCE
Pyramid of Nyuserre	Nyuserre	5th	ca. 2440 BCE
Great Pyramid of Sneferu (Red Pyramid)	Sneferu	4th	ca. 2610–2590 BCE	First successful true (smooth-sided) pyramid
Bent Pyramid	Sneferu	4th	ca. 2610–2600 BCE	Angle changed mid-construction
Meidum Pyramid	Sneferu (originally Huni?)	3rd–4th	ca. 2610 BCE	Collapsed outer casing; originally a step pyramid

Quick timeline summary

• First pyramid ever (step pyramid): ~2650 BCE (Djoser)
• Peak of pyramid-building (largest and best-constructed): 4th Dynasty, 2580–2500 BCE (Khufu, Khafre, Menkaure at Giza)
• Last large royal pyramid: Pepi II (6th Dynasty), ca. 2200 BCE
• Final tiny pyramids: 13th Dynasty, ca. 1800–1700 BCE (mostly mudbrick)

So when people say “the pyramids” they usually mean the iconic Giza ones: roughly 2600–2500 BCE — about 4,500–4,600 years ago as of 2025.